Reduce wave count of certain survival maps

[cirion0000]

Some survival maps are WAY too long. *cough* talay *cough* jungle *cough*

I'm quite sure I am the 1000th person to post this but it needs to be reposted again.

Having 6000 monsters is unacceptable. It adds frustration, and an artificial increase in difficulty. More maps need to be like aquanos which are short and sweet. You don't need super long waves to still make it difficult, there is no need to have 4000-6000 monster per wave.... and then when you wipe, it makes it that much more frustrating. It took me a full saturday to get to wave 33 on jungle, only to die 2 waves from the last wave, and I cannot tell you how mad that made me... and even when I lost, it was more of a problem with targetting of archers being too stupid to target the right monster (why can't there be a targetting preference scheme that you can set up? Think like FFXII: "Monster -> Greatest Max HP -> Attack" etc.... (but there is already a thread on that so that's not the focus of this one)

[JHarlequin]

Oh, you mean the mob count per wave. It might be good at times. Still, it's survival, and those are the hardest maps currently. They probably should have more mobs for now.

[Warmonger]

Still, it's survival, and those are the hardest maps currently. They probably should have more mobs for now.

More mobs don't make the game more challenging, just time-consuming. If 18 waves on Misty can take 3 hours, I don't dare to ask how much time would take 20+ waves on Karathiki with 3-5 times more mobs per wave.

I can only remember doing Talay, starting at wave 20 still took ages to finish.

Most of survival maps have mob count reduced, but it's still unbalanced. Why can't we have exactly the same mob count on each map, just like Misty / Aqua?

[cirion0000]

The fact is, if your gear / build is bad, you will lose whether there are 1500 or 6000 monsters. Having 6000 monsters is just stupid, makes games longer, and makes it more likely you will lose instead to a random glitch like crystal suicide for no reason. Case in point, for a while I couldn't beat aqua wave 20 even with a low amount of monsters because my build was bad. Difficulty =/= number of monsters.

You aren't going to beat talay without almost 4000 tower stats whether its 1500 or 6000 monsters. So I really don't see much of the debate here to be honest.... the debate is more of disconnecting, and wasting time, and having more likelihood of the crystal randomly suiciding for no reason (it does happen, and there's another thread on this very subject as well) heck a friend of mine lost Misty forest for no reason just yesterday on a crystal that was fully enveloped in reflect beams and nothing was near it.

You ask how long it took to do jungle? It took me 10 hours to get to wave 33. Now you come and try to tell me that's balanced. By the way, that was solo, where the number of monsters is supposedly less (6000 monsters per wave solo, are you kidding me?????)

6000 monsters in a full group of 6 is SOMEWHAT understandable, but is completely insane solo and absolutely ridiculous.

Another HUGE problem with the number of monsters is internet connection. Can you imagine how mad you are if you are on wave 34 of jungle or wave 29 of Talay and you disconnect? This is arguably an even bigger problem than anything else.

If you disconnect, LOL to you, game goes poof! Even if you're in multiplayer! If the host goes game goes! This is some of the worst here. Even if your connection is really good, stuff happens in 10 hours, it's nigh impossible to not DC in 10 hours. I have a great connection, but I usually dc once or twice in a long period of time if I play all day.

Someone said that these maps got patched to reduce monster count, I could have sworn. But apparently not :/

I just want to clarify something else too. I LOVE challenges. I LOVE hardcore modes in games. But there comes a point where there's a fine line between challenge and frustration/time sink. This is a time sink NOT a challenge.

Now, if they add a feature like Sanctum, where if you lose you can roll back a couple of waves, or if you can even save your progress entirely, I MIGHT be more ok with it. But as it stands, if you can't save your progress, I'm not okay with it. True you can start at a late wave, but I doubt any legit person on this server can honestly start at wave 28 in Talay NMHCMM, it's just not possible. Not with current gear at least.

I sincerely am not trying to be mean, but unless you farm almost all of NMHCMM content your opinion is not too useful. Once you get to where I am you will understand my position more rather than just say "oh it's supposed to be hard." I know that sounds harsh but it's true. And I do still plan to win Talay as unbalanced as it is, I'll learn to deal with it until they fix it I suppose. All of my steam friends, some of whom have already beaten all 30 waves Talay NMHCMM even, agree with me 1000%.

[Rominus]

I do enjoy reading what belligerent loads of bull you post. Trying to demean other players because they aren't as 'superior' as you are is adorable, but childish.

Fun fact, trendy cares less about players who have 4000 stat than they do about players with 500. Want to know why? Because they've already taken your money, and they know based on all the time you've wasted that you will come back for more later. They care more about new players because they need the game to be enjoyable enough to make new customers spend more money.


Try not to let my posts discourage you though, I think your errant **** waving contests are what make your posts funny.

[cirion0000]

I do enjoy reading what belligerent loads of bull you post. Trying to demean other players because they aren't as 'superior' as you are is adorable, but childish.

Fun fact, trendy cares less about players who have 4000 stat than they do about players with 500. Want to know why? Because they've already taken your money, and they know based on all the time you've wasted that you will come back for more later. They care more about new players because they need the game to be enjoyable enough to make new customers spend more money.

Try not to let my posts discourage you though, I think your errant **** waving contests are what make your posts funny.

Look, I had no intention to make people mad. I mean I don't care if I did, but whatever. I even tried to preface some of my points to that effect. My point was that people cannot make claims about NMHCMM if they don't do it on a regular basis and know what goes on in it personally. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm just saying. I want to have an intelligent discussion about what can be improved upon. Not "oh it's fine as it is, it should be challenging". That brings nothing to the table. Tell me WHY it's fine to spend 10 hours of your life only to disconnect, or randomly get a crystal suicide, and then have to start all over again, other than well it should be difficult. That's not a good enough answer IMO.

Instead of pointless bantering, why can't we have a civil discussion about some things like the following...

1.) Djinn boosted monsters are so OP at wave 30+ (especially ninjas, and wyverns) and that there is essentially no defense against it (at this point, mage minions short of ungodly high HP (ie 4k tower hp) have exactly zero chance of surviving even spamming heals on other stuff) and the fact that djinn boosted ninjas are a far greater threat than any number of ogres which are supposed to do more damage than anything
2.) You can't order towers to prefer certain enemies
3.) Waves are so long (ie this topic) in SOLO mode (SOLO not multiplayer, I said I could be ok with 6000 monsters in MP, just not solo)
4.) Crystals randomly explode for no reason
5.) etc.....

[MacPimpin]

Well to pull it back on point, I think they've nerfed the mob count enough personally, I played mostly solo for the past couple weeks to finish gearing up on Supremes n what not before the new DLC, used just the core classes (though I did eventually buy the Summoner for the only armor drops due to the poor drop rate otherwise)

Survival used to be insanely longer I'd say about 9 to 10x longer then it is now. Not to mention the ability to start on the previous cleared wave... I think anything more to nerf survival would just make it too easy, just imo.

[cirion0000]

Well to pull it back on point, I think they've nerfed the mob count enough personally, I played mostly solo for the past couple weeks to finish gearing up on Supremes n what not before the new DLC, used just the core classes (though I did eventually buy the Summoner for the only armor drops due to the poor drop rate otherwise)

Survival used to be insanely longer I'd say about 9 to 10x longer then it is now. Not to mention the ability to start on the previous cleared wave... I think anything more to nerf survival would just make it too easy, just imo.

Some maps do seem nerfed, that's true, and I am happy for misty-aqua for most part. But jungle and talay are stupidly long :/ Though jungle is actually the worst. By far. 35 waves, and each wave lasts far longer than waves in talay, actually.

But if jungle was nerfed, and took 10x longer, I feel sorry for gamers in DD, because that means it would have taken 100 hours before lol...

Some of the regular old school campaign maps are way too long as well, but at least they are easy and you only need to beat them once ever so whatever, that doesn't bother me as much (although some of them could use a nerf as well. As example, deeper well is fine and short, but Throne Room to name one at random is pretty long still.

[MacPimpin]

Aye, I have torn thru Jungle no problem, but like we've spoken of before I've not done Talay, I'm assuming it's 35 waves...

And if it's giving you issues just keep progressing, once you reach that 28 cut off it's a gold mine to be used over n over again

[cirion0000]

Aye, I have torn thru Jungle no problem, but like we've spoken of before I've not done Talay, I'm assuming it's 35 waves...

And if it's giving you issues just keep progressing, once you reach that 28 cut off it's a gold mine to be used over n over again

Yeah maybe. I just hope that 4k stats are really all that and more so that I can actually start off at wave 28 some day on talay :P It is true that some of my characters (like summoner) would be sooooo amazing with 4k tower dmg and hp, that's for sure.