[Layout] Talay Mining Complex SV_NM_HC(_MM) 7.37

[zingfharn]

Solo is bold. Post 25, you'll have ogres at the gates constantly, and I don't see how you'd do circuits quickly enough to keep things repaired. North alone requires someone practically full time, with ogres coming from both sides.

[grey-1]

I don't know about solo, but with a smaller team what do you think about keeping the summoner active to get the dmg boost of being active plus keeping him in overlord to quick jump locations in the minimap for repairs? The other players can be booster monks with dps pets?

[jenslars01]

Here's the screenshots for the north boost beam i used. This far, no ogre has been able to reach crystal, even though its very tight.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/jenslar...77806264117317
http://steamcommunity.com/id/jenslar...77806264130608

[Sharyza]

@jens: That is not our build though because we are using FBs there instead of harps but it's looking promising. My fear would be ogres smashing minions on later wave and splashing crystals. Will test that. Thanks for the screens and impressions anyway. i really need to take some screens.

@grey-1: I think the only two places needing an actual active player to defend it are north and top. At top VERY rarely an ogre appears and depending of his angle can smash the crystal, so you have to get him lured off. North is one of the heaviest places, it needs ogre killing by hand. So, I can imagine a 3-man team with active summoner healing both mids+the pit.

[Gamblor]

I use a custom solo layout with all apprentice towers on NM HC - made it to 22 so far, was hardly stressed, but an unlucky sharken pushed a barrier on north, letting ogres in. My in-game char is a summoner with all resists+HP plus pets for mana regen and HP - engineer/repairer in other words. My buff beam at north looks exactly like jens, but I put a FB tower on the top end, close to the wall to fire along that corridor - and a second FB tower centre of the beam to fire over the 2+3 split wall.

Sometimes the ogres hit that first FB tower -sometimes it goes down to half HP or so before I notice. No big problem though, I am usually right there. Just use overlord mode occasionally to flash heal the other defenses.

The ogres will not smash the minions because the FB towers generate far larger threat to it than the minions do. Never had crystal damage on ogre swipe, only if a wall gets pushed at north and they get in.

[zingfharn]

Jens: that gas is -very- close. It protects against sharks that close? I know for a fact if I put mine that close, I'll get knocks in the first wave (and my radius is around 1900).

gamblor: Well, that's why solo on this map is rough. Knocks happen due to the heavy ogre presence (I don't think we had a single run where it didn't happen), and you can't be two places at once. So when they do happen, you either have to babysit the knock, meaning no repairs elsewhere, or leave it and hope nothing slips through.

And trying to solo with a summoner is also not really feasible. If (when) you get the knock, you need heavy DPS to hold the breach. Even a summoner with double-dps pets is basically just tickling ogres, and won't be able to draw aggro, so they'll slip the wall and smash the crystal. Insta-wipe. Add to that the topside issue, which is that at any point, an ogre can one-shot your crystal if you're running without walls, and you're in for a very frustrating ride. Sure, you might clear it, but the chances are stacked towards a one-hit fail along the way.

I'd love to be proved wrong, so let me know if you make it to 30, but I really don't see it happening reliably with that approach.

[Videm]

I've been running this build a few times now, been up to 28 so far with 2 people active. Great build, should have it all the way to 30 soon.

I keep running into a problem with the Ogres in the very top tier were they all seem to like to bunch up in the western spawn point, like they're trying to hit something in a lower tier. I was wondering is this was something the build did by default or if i'm just unlucky and/or placed something wrong or auras are too big or something. It's been really annoying having the last 5min of the wave be me trying to lure ogres out of the bunch (usually about at least 5-10 ogres in the bunch at the end) and into actual damage areas. Also since the ogres bunch up there it holds back all the ogres in the other spawn points which really slows the whole wave down.

[Sharyza]

Build updated/enhanced!
- No more random wyvern hitting crystal.
- Eased up north.
- Use Harps instead of fbs (north, mid-west)
- Slight changes to spawned minions.
- Added some screenshots.

@Videm:
Though it is not specifically designed to do that it happens to us too. I could not yet locate the exact problem(in terms of origin), we kite those ogres at the end in bunches to the northern defenses. Yes, it slows down the waves a bit but (maybe it is my imagination) ogres drop multiple items and also good ones (again, can be my imagination).

[Videm]

Build updated/enhanced!
- No more random wyvern hitting crystal.
- Eased up north.
- Use Harps instead of fbs (north, mid-west)
- Slight changes to spawned minions.
- Added some screenshots.

@Videm:
Though it is not specifically designed to do that it happens to us too. I could not yet locate the exact problem(in terms of origin), we kite those ogres at the end in bunches to the northern defenses. Yes, it slows down the waves a bit but (maybe it is my imagination) ogres drop multiple items and also good ones (again, can be my imagination).

Cool, thanks for the reply. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't something I was doing, its a minor annoyance so no big deal. Looking forward to seeing/using your new layout update.

[zingfharn]

Yeah. We just have a couple of seahorse monks clean those guys up. Takes about 3s per ogre with two boosted monks. Just remember to kite the poison-resist ones to a str drain.

Also played around with boosted hawk strike and big hammers, but I was only getting ~20m per hawk. So by the time the cooldown has reset, it's about as quick to use monk + seahorse. Plus you lose the option to tower boost during the wave.

Oh, and Shary didn't mention: with this build and enough players, start on 23 is easily possible. Once it's upped, it's incredibly stable.

Are we trying a start on 25 tonight, Shary?