Feedback, thoughts, ideas

[zingfharn]

Been playing a lot the last couple of days. Here's some stuff I've noticed.

1) Minions are suiciding. Why is it suice? It happens during build phase. Just randomly "Xxxx's archer minion was destroyed". anyone else seen this? Saw it a lot on aqua mix nm hc.

2) Summoner + monkey + genie = the ultimate upgrade tool.

3) Talay is clearly supposed to b a map to use the summoner. The DU available simply isn't enough without. Or 6 high DPS characters. Which is fine. It's DLC, and therefore people who pay for that are probably ok paying for the summoner, so let's not get dragged into that hellish argument. But! If so, why release a character with an RTS view that then has to work with a map that has so many different levels. Using overlord is impossible. It's, uhhh, a strange choice? I'd use much harsher language, but what's the point. Doesn't fix it.

4) The lag. My god. The lag. Both visual and network.

4a) Visual. The damage numbers appear to run a lot smoother now (I guess that's the 3d text mentioned in the patch?) but auras still burn up my dual GTX 580s. Quite simply, I stand in the auras, click repair/upgrade, and the fans speed up to full. I leave repair/upgrade view, and they slow down. This isn't rocket science.

4b) Network. And auras cause too much network traffic. I don't know what can be done. It's a while since I properly programmed network code, but there must be a way of better marshalling the damage data. It ends up that I wait 2-3 seconds to see my mana increase, or an upgrade actually appear on my screen. It's also the reason you can suddenly die, because when fish are flying backwards over my crystal, that's not fun. It's like skyrim all over again.
And that's not even mentioning all the mobs that rubber band all over the place. My host has 40 meg down, 10 meg up. I have 10 meg down, 1 meg up. This shouldn't be kicking our arses.

5) Djinn + imp for summoner? Amazing. Also, flash heal is way overpowered. But you know, I'm not complaining. The whole summoner is way overpowered. Loving it.

6) On that note, I play gamepad. Is there any chance you could remap the controller buttons for summoner? I'd rather have flash heal on my quick skills (mapped to up on the dpad) than overlord. Overlord is something I specifically go into, and I don't mind fiddling through the action wheel to get to it. Whereas flash heal is something I need to click in a pinch. And I'd also like to be able to see the cooldown rather than dropping my controller, pushing 0, sighing because it's still got 2 seconds cooldown, picking up the controller... you get the idea. I could count to 10 in my head (1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi) but I'm simple, and get confused after 3.

7) Female summoner. She has less HP. And.....? Anything else? Doesn't move faster. Doesn't repair faster. Doesn't carry more mana. Seems like the only upside is she looks good with a moustache.

[Alhanalem]

1) Minions are suiciding. Why is it suice? It happens during build phase. Just randomly "Xxxx's archer minion was destroyed". anyone else seen this? Saw it a lot on aqua mix nm hc.

Not sure how it happens on aquanos, but i have seen minions walk too close to ledges and fall off on maps with pits.

4) The lag. My god. The lag. Both visual and network.

Like has been told to everyone else, in order to find this problem, you need to provide details. just saying "my god the lag" doesn't help anybody fix it.

And auras cause too much network traffic.

Auras are known to cause performance issues (it used to be much worse when the game came out), but as far as I'm aware it's not network related. Are you monitoring your NIC activity and seeing it spike when you place an aura? If not, it's presumptuous to say that it's network related.

6) On that note, I play gamepad. Is there any chance you could remap the controller buttons for summoner? I'd rather have flash heal on my quick skills (mapped to up on the dpad) than overlord.

You can rebind the buttons on your own by going to that action in the action wheel and pressing the button you want to assign it to. When you assign it to one of the quickslots, you will see the cooldown.

[classic22]

Point number 6:

I too wanted this, so I re-mapped it myself. Go into the hero abilities from the scroll wheel highlight flash heel, then hold the d pad button you want it to be. It will re-map for you

[zingfharn]

Point number 6:

I too wanted this, so I re-mapped it myself. Go into the hero abilities from the scroll wheel highlight flash heel, then hold the d pad button you want it to be. It will re-map for you

SWEEEEET. Thank you both.

Not sure how it happens on aquanos, but i have seen minions walk too close to ledges and fall off on maps with pits.

Hrm. Could be. But yeah, I don't see where they'd die. They tend to die in the middle area, but also behind the south crystal.

Like has been told to everyone else, in order to find this problem, you need to provide details. just saying "my god the lag" doesn't help anybody fix it.

Uhm. Like I did. By saying it's auras.

Auras are known to cause performance issues (it used to be much worse when the game came out), but as far as I'm aware it's not network related. Are you monitoring your NIC activity and seeing it spike when you place an aura? If not, it's presumptuous to say that it's network related.

Play without auras. No lag. Play with auras. Lag. I don't need network monitoring. I use real game tests. It's also not rocket science to realise that auras have potentially a hundred monsters all taking damage. That's a lot of data being thrown around.

[Alhanalem]

Uhm. Like I did. By saying it's auras.

And you think that's enough details? It's not. Any time anyone has a performance issue or problem, TE needs

-the specs of your machine and operating system
-the steps to reproduce the problem
-The frequency of the problem (e.g. always, intermittently, etc)
-Anything else that might possibly even the remotest chance be relevant

Play without auras. No lag. Play with auras. Lag.

That doesn't mean it's a networking issue. It's hard to comment clearly dude to ambiguity of the term "lag" (where these days, people who say "lag" really mean 'low FPS." but if you're not willing to investigate the issue to give Trendy leads, then they can not help you, because they can't fix a problem if they can't reproduce it.

If I have a ton of auras, my FPS starts to drop, but that's expected, because the auras have a rather high performance cost. It does not, however, cause my ping to jump and my input to be delayed.

[zingfharn]

dude to ambiguity of the term "lag"

Heh. Dude, where's my lag?

Yep. FPS isn't network lag. FPS is visual lag. Which is why I split these things up. Frame rate issues won't affect your ping.

I've given all the data that's required. Trust me. Not my first rodeo. It's always a problem, whenever you have a heavy aura build. The reason is because auras are causing damage to most of the monsters objects simulataneously. This in turn creates a lot of network traffic. I appreciate you're a mod, and this is what you've been told to tell people, but you're misunderstanding.

I'm not talking about the game freezing while I repair stuff. I'm talking about doing an upgrade. I get the wavy hands animation. The bar doesn't fill up as I'm upgrading (this data comes from the host, since upgrades are on the host machine). The host sees the upgrade. My client doesn't get the response from the host and update on my client for about 2 seconds. I still have the mana for those 2 seconds. If, for example, I have 700 mana and do an upgrade for 700 mana, I finish the upgrade and still have 700 mana. I start another upgrade, and halfway through (2-3 seconds) I'm suddenly told "Upgrade cancelled due to lack of mana". Because my client is catching up with data the host is sending me. This is network lag.

The game uses UDP (I'm guessing/hoping/praying) to throw combat data around. TCP would be a mess. But might explain some stuff. And if you're playing solo, it's not going to affect you, because you're not on the network. Also, if you're hosting, same deal. I have no problems playing with auras solo or host, beyond the graphical issues (fans spinning up). Fortunately, I use a couple of highend graphics cards (as specified), so now they've fixed damage numbers, I can switch those back on and have been enjoying 50 frames a second all day.

I've specified network speeds of host and client. I've given examples of when it does and doesn't work (i.e with and without auras). Auras are creating a huge amount of network traffic to the point where other data is being delayed, and mobs are rubber banding all over the place.

[Alhanalem]

I've given all the data that's required. Trust me. Not my first rodeo.

You haven't given all the data that's required. It doesn't matter how many rodeos you've been to, you can't not give information and expect a problem to get fixed. "It's auras." is not enough information.

I'm not talking about the game freezing while I repair stuff. I'm talking about doing an upgrade. I get the wavy hands animation. The bar doesn't fill up as I'm upgrading (this data comes from the host, since upgrades are on the host machine). The host sees the upgrade.

This is the first I've heard of this, and it doesn't happen on my end. It does sound like a network issue, but it sounds like it's either on your end or the end of the host you're playing with.

Please check that your steam region and your actual physical location are the same.

This is network lag.

Yes, it very clearly is, but that doesn't mean it's specifically caused by auras. However, if someone else can produce auras turning lag on and off like a light siwtch, that might be enough.

I appreciate you're a mod, and this is what you've been told to tell people, but you're misunderstanding.

Nobody told me to tell you this. These are my words. Let's make that fully clear.

I'm moving this to tech support at this point, and I've let IceArrow, Trendy's tech support guy, know about this.

[zingfharn]

edit

It's plenty of information. You clearly don't dabble with heavy aura builds.

The amount of data thrown around by the game when most of the mobs on the map are taking damage sends too much data. In real play, this is caused by gas + electric on every choke.

Trendy appear to be smart guys. It should be trivial to set up a test harness to test this (no, not build a map, set up a test harness). They have all the information they need. They don't need my computer settings, they don't need my network speed. I leave it with them.

[Ice]

edit

It's plenty of information. You clearly don't dabble with heavy aura builds.

The amount of data thrown around by the game when most of the mobs on the map are taking damage sends too much data. In real play, this is caused by gas + electric on every choke.

Trendy appear to be smart guys. It should be trivial to set up a test harness to test this (no, not build a map, set up a test harness). They have all the information they need. They don't need my computer settings, they don't need my network speed. I leave it with them.

Actually...I do. In order for me to reproduce things, specifications and details about the setup you're using can help quite a bit.

So with that can you please send me a DxDiag of your computer?

Start -> Run -> type dxdiag and hit enter
or
Start -> type dxdiag and hit enter

Then click save all information and it'll put it into a .txt file.

Also let me know your upload/download speed of your connection? You can send this all to techreports@trendyent.com with the title of your Forum name. That way I know its your email? Thanks

[zingfharn]

Already said the upload/download speed.

My host has 40 meg down, 10 meg up. I have 10 meg down, 1 meg up.

And we're talking network lag.

Visual has nothing to do with. CPU is at 20%. Graphics heat doesn't go above 60 degrees.