Paid for DD + shard DLC, but game is now useless

[bombpaw1]

I laugh, because even though it seems impossible to me, I know that it isn't.

I rarely ever use my EV for builds, even on NM. I personally like traps/auras/squire stuff more.
Spike blockade damages the enemy, magic barriers remove elemental alignment, and the EV are variable size.

This isn't a 'P2W' game, it's a game where YOU make YOUR own play style, instead of revolving around someone else or a specific character.

If you think adding an EV makes it easier, have you tried mixing the main four together? That is the easiest way.

[dragonmaster0283]

How can you say that sharken taking twice the time to die is not a problem?? How many times have you seen them fall into your gas trap and in between triggers waking up already in charge mode, bye bye defenses.

For 1, you set up the gas traps where they still arn't in range of your towers (meaning they still move forward before getting into tower range. My Aura or Traps are the only things that damage the Sharken as they are generally either LoS'ed for my Ogre towers or to far back. If one ever did make it into charge range, the single Harpoon I generally use targets it and since it sat in an aura/trap for so long, only a few hits and its dead.

And the reverse blockades working, yeah, most of the time, until an ogre or two magically slip in between two tightly (in case you were going to say that I wasn't placing them properly) set blockades.

That happens with EV Walls too. I've see it happen most often on the later wave of SV's where Ogre's get past my EV walls and spike walls. That's not specific to the EV being immune to that.

Something is up in here, all these people suggesting that you can do just fine without EV or Summoner, have either overblown stats on the 4 originals, and we are talking of more than 2500, or have devised some kind of magical non EV setups, in which case please head to ddplaner and share it with the rest of us, because all I can see there are EV reliant builds, with a couple of exceptions, which are builds made for older pre sharken/djinn versions of the game.

NONE of my characters have 2500 in any stat. Most of my aura/trappers are in the 1000-1500 range. My harpooner is at 2200 damage but 500 tower rate and my app has 1800 damage & 900 tower rate. My non-EV waller (I have yet to make an EV waller as I've been lazy) has around 2500 in Tower Health (getting a waller class is extremely simple and not expensive).

As it was said before, EV maybe makes things a little easier, but by no means is required.

[Kruntski]

This isn't constructive anymore. As I already said, when you prove to me that your failing is because of Trendy and not your skill as a player I will be more than happy to provide you with proof that it's possible to beat this game without EV. Seeing how you're not going to attempt to prove this to me, I think it would be best for the sake of the topic to stop discussing this. If you feel you need to go on about it, feel free to private message me and we can go back and forth barking at each other about showing proof that the other person's stance is wrong.

Hold it buddy. I'm not the one making unfounded claims. All I asked is for you to prove your point which you can't so I accept this as your apology. Please try to stick to facts in future discussions.

[DarkSoul]

This issue is simple one. The Loot quality has not changed since day 1 of nm release but the strength of towers and the addition of new enemies have.

[Vesper]

Hold it buddy. I'm not the one making unfounded claims. All I asked is for you to prove your point which you can't so I accept this as your apology. Please try to stick to facts in future discussions.

Now you're just trolling because you're making the unfounded claim the game is impossible to beat without EV. It's fine though, we have made our point that it's not impossible and if you don't want to listen that's fine. Remember, the only thing preventing you from progressing in this game is yourself.

Like I said though, if you want to continue then feel free to private message me, if you want to keep harping on about more proof and derailing the topic than just know you're going to be ignored. Have a nice day.

To freshen your memory:

And i have yet to see someone provide me hard evidence that the game is impossible with out the EV. Where is the evidence of that? For the players claiming its impossible i would like to see you post all your builder stats (i assume if your whining you at least have all the base characters for building right?) as well as every build and build variation you have tried.

The game is hard, however it gets much much easier with any of the following:

-Combined builds using all the base game characters (included with base game)

-Use of guardians (included with base game)

-Playing with other players (some that maybe have the characters you lack, this is free)

-Purchasing the EV and/or Summoner DLC so you can provide them your self (optional)

No one is saying its easy, but survivals were being cleared prior to the EV, as i stated in my post before, using guardians/monk boosts to provide the extra damage as needed on lanes. The hard counter to sharken and genies are gas traps, which again are included in the base game. I see alot of whining about problems that have solutions (no extra costs solutions) built into the game.

[Cymmina]

Remember when people were clearing NM maps with Magic Barricades for walls... you know, back when it was lolMonk (auras only, but forget about using Lightning) and lolSquire and no trans/supreme gear? Things are better now for the base classes than they've ever been.

[fulano]

For 1, you set up the gas traps where they still arn't in range of your towers (meaning they still move forward before getting into tower range. My Aura or Traps are the only things that damage the Sharken as they are generally either LoS'ed for my Ogre towers or to far back. If one ever did make it into charge range, the single Harpoon I generally use targets it and since it sat in an aura/trap for so long, only a few hits and its dead.

I wish it was that easy, yesterday, wave 22 of misty, in the top right, 3 sharken spawned **already in charge mode**, nothing stopped them and strolled all the way to the crystal where we managed to kill them. End result, two ogres found the doors open and took the crystal in one hit.

That happens with EV Walls too. I've see it happen most often on the later wave of SV's where Ogre's get past my EV walls and spike walls. That's not specific to the EV being immune to that.

Yeah, or they just climb the walls, maybe it's a new class, spider ogres, prolly a bug, the thing is, if your harps are buffed the ogres they will go down faster before finding that magical crack in your walls, a must if the ogre was 30million health.

NONE of my characters have 2500 in any stat. Most of my aura/trappers are in the 1000-1500 range. My harpooner is at 2200 damage but 500 tower rate and my app has 1800 damage & 900 tower rate. My non-EV waller (I have yet to make an EV waller as I've been lazy) has around 2500 in Tower Health (getting a waller class is extremely simple and not expensive).

You didn't answer the question, are you hitting wave 30 in the lost shard maps? My tower has around 2400 tower atk, the rest is 1800s. My dps the same but for hero stats, btw.

As it was said before, EV maybe makes things a little easier, but by no means is required.

The weird thing is, those coming up with the statement that they finish nmhc survival on a regular basis, on the shards maps, without using the EV/Summoner just once, act like if their builds are some sort of top secret information, why not share with the rest of us in the guides forum and/or ddplaner?

The day I see a just 2 setups on ddplaner, for 2 of the lost shards maps, therefore allowing the farming of decent gear, a setup that doesn't use any of the DLC heroes and that guarantees finishing wave 30 with stats hovering around yours, or mine, I will come here and make a public statement that I those arguing that this game is not pay 2 win were right all along, I will apologize and will buy every hero DLC at full price.

Actually I'm not because I didn't start a thread saying "The game is totally possible without an EV!" The OP was the one that made a claim therefor the burden of proof falls on him.

In addition to that, enough proof has already been given regarding how it's done (but that just gets ignored). Let me quote LordoftheBong since he said it best:

No, the burden of proof falls unto you too, and lordofthebong, and anyone else claiming that the game is possible without the heroes dlc. How can you ask for proof if you refuse to provide any?

Unless you just posted one of your non EV setups on ddplaner and I missed the post where you announced the link. By all means, please repost it.

Now you're just trolling because you're making the unfounded claim the game is impossible to beat without EV.

He is not trolling, you too are making the unfounded claim that progression in the game is possible without EV, please post proof of this so I can progress too.

He might have never said anything about "beating" the game btw, that's why I changed the word to "progressing"

[Poor D!ck]

The burden of proof lies with the original poster to prove his proposition: all the opposition needs to do to negate it until the origional proposition has evidence provided is to go, "Proof?"

[LordiHaxTheNaked]

No, the burden of proof falls unto you too, and lordofthebong, and anyone else claiming that the game is possible without the heroes dlc. How can you ask for proof if you refuse to provide any?

Go look in the history on the guides section. Most of the builds for Misty (and some of the morago ones as well though morago in general benefits from more players given its size) pre EV still work, as long as they include gas traps. Its been stated, you can provide ALL the functions of the EV within the mechanics of the base game. Other characters provide walls that are either cheaper in DU or have more HP, and if your towers are not doing enough damage you have some wonderful options. First you can just run an app guard, or you could run a monk with a hunt guard providing a massive boost to fire power.

Yes the later waves of survival require some form of damage boost in order to take out ogres and prevent defenses from being swarmed under. The game provides a number of ways to do this (almost all of which were around and used pre EV)

Means of boosting tower damage output-

-App guardians (included in base game)

-Huntress guardians (included in base game)

-Monk tower boost (included in base game)

-EV buff beams (Optional DLC)

-Other players (FREE)


I am sorry that your inability to adapt and adjust is ruining your experience in this game. Many players have suggested potential solutions to your inability to progress, and as i and others have mentioned there are still guides in the guides section, you can dig them up and work with them. If you would like help figuring out exactly why your builds and set ups are failing, please see my earlier post and provide us with the specs for your builders and the build/builds you are attempting. What waves are you making it do and what is causing the fail (ogres/sharks/gins/trash mobs)? ALL of these issues have counters within the base game mechanics, they may be more hands on counters then the EV provides but they exist and are quite effective.

[Vesper]

The burden of proof lies with the original poster to prove his proposition: all the opposition needs to do to negate it until the origional proposition has evidence provided is to go, "Proof?"

This. Spin it all you want but it is the burden of the accuser to provide proof, not the defender.

Further more, proof has been provided; Nobody wants to pay any attention to Lordofthebong's posts. This is the reason why it's silly to provide proof; because it's never good enough. It either gets ignored, or people just claim that there's a variety of reasons on why the proof is flawed or invalid.

I'm done with this discussion. If everybody would approach it like KarlHeinz69 than maybe it would be worth continuing, but atm It's the equivalent of producing a well structured argument and being met with "LALALA I'M NOT LISTENING; IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!". If you guys wanna hang out in here and lament on how the game is impossible to beat than feel free; I'm gonna go look for other topics that the community can provide constructive ideas to Trendy on how to improve the game.