Quick Question to the Team about the Future

[mcneleon]

In the latest Digest I read, it sounded to me your done creating content for Dungeon Defenders after the 4th Lost Shard release. Is this true? Please tell me I just read that completely wrong.

-Leo

[AmagicalFishy]

... Whoa. Good point, I'd like to know, too.


Beyond the peak of the volcano flies Sky City, the final map of the Shards DLC. Our team, from the level designers to the art team to the ivory tower gameplay designers, have invested many man-hours and buckets of man-sweat to ensure that their fond farewell would leave a remarkable impression.

[Lourishinfox]

I would say they deserve a break. And there's still content ahead of us. Jester, a community made map (not really trendy). I'm sure theyll add a part to the game about the parents.

There have been weekly map packs too.
I think they're just going to take a long break :P


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[Ceron]

I doubt they'll stop making content. Their business model revolves around making DLC, so if they stop, most of the money will dry up.

[Ruoivas]

By fond farewell I'm assuming they mean for the end of the storyline the Shards maps created. It obviously won't be continuing once all 4 parts + climax are out. I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt they'd stop supporting the game, because it'd be kinda expensive to keep it running if they didn't have new things out every so often for people to invest in.

Though part of me does wonder what Trendy's next project would be if they ever reached a point where this game was "Finished" or at least completed enough where they could slow down on it and focus more resources elsewhere.

[Infernotez]

Dunno I'm hearing they won't make any more content after shards 4.

[zingfharn]

http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/754553-Chicken-Coup-demo-from-Trendy (ok, that's pretty old).

Ah, found it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAUseUg7qd4&list=UU6rak1lOnwEAvajI5QY65nQ&index=4&feature=plcp

[Masema]

There is at least something coming after Shards 4:


Fun Fact: The 4th shard DLC and remaining story were conceived by myself and Jeremy over Korean BBQ in downtown L.A. during E3 2011.

[Alshain]

There is at least something coming after Shards 4:

I think in that quote he was referring to the remaining story for Shards 4.

This thread reminds me of the "Myan prophecy" of the end of the world. No really, it does. You guys are so eager to see it all end (why? I don't know), yet no real evidence points to anything of the sort. The Digest indicates the end of the Shards series, nothing more.

[UltimateJorts]

I think trendy will pop out a few more minor DLC's i.e. Jester then begin to work on Dungeon Defenders 2

[Alshain]

I think trendy will pop out a few more minor DLC's i.e. Jester then begin to work on Dungeon Defenders 2

I think I could only get behind an Dungeon Defenders 2 if it were a massive overhaul. Trendy hosted servers with more control over hacking (Preemptive control, not reactive control), GUI redesign with vastly improved options, and most importantly... something other than the UE3 engine.

However I don't see that happening, and if it doesn't there simply isn't a need for DunDef 2 when you can simply continue making DLC's for DunDef 1 and get the same money out of it really.

I don't really have the numbers (only Trendy does), but if you think about it... The DLC's come out two to three times a month at an average of $2.5 The game only costs $15 and it probably took them at least 6 months to a year to develop. So why create a second game, from a business perspective you get more money from the DLC's as long as people still buy them.

[Dingle]

If Trendy do something like a "Dungeon Defenders 2", I'd rather expect it to be something like a huge content addition to DD1 than a new game. Which they're already slowly doing with Shards and the new characters...

Since the release of shards and as of Talay, we'll have:

6 new maps (with 3 boss fights)
9 new challenges, plus another 7 from the challenge packs
6 new pets
around 24 new weapons
and 3 new classes, 7 new costumes (2 Bounty Hunters...)

All released since the start of shards. That's nearing the amount of content in the core game. Eventually we'll have at least 1, possibly 2 more core shard maps (speculation for the second, but we'll see) each with a challenge and possibly a monsterfest, a new class (Jester) which will almost certainly have a new map for her alt-gender costume to unlock on, which will also have a challenge. With that much content, if you ignore that the core game has quite a few maps nobody cares about, we'll already have "Dungeon Defenders 2".

And then Trendy will begin work on the next DLC season. Personally I'm hoping we can just buy a season pass to get all new maps and classes automatically in that season instead of just the maps in QftLES, but Trendy might need to decide whether it's worth it to do another season first.

If Trendy ever decide to release a "Dungeon Defenders 2" officially, I still hold it'll be a content update to regular ol' DD; we don't want to lose all our old classes and we don't want a new game which includes them as something we have to pay for over. But a major gameplay overhaul for the core game could be "DD2".

[AskaLangly]

Or, like great companies do these days, transfer the save over to the sequel. Or at least a lot of the other stuff.
Recall the Rathet and Clank series... at least the PS2 trilogy. You beat R&C1, you get some of the R&C1 weapons for free on R&C2. On R&C3, if you had some of the R&C2 weapons, you get those in the third for free, likewise having a R&C1 save granted you the classic Ratchet skin.

[mcneleon]

Dang, still no answer from the team. This is a real important question IMHO.

[JeremyStieglitz]

We're planning on creating new DD1 content after the 4th Shards release. How long after the 4th Shards release remains to be determined; it depends on how the community's support over time to determine how many resources we can allocate, but yes we do have fun plans that go beyond Shards 4 (which, by the way, is going to be epic :) ).

Keep on Defending,
Jer

[Withinm]

^ that is exciting news to hear. (:

Oh "DD1"? Does that mean there could be a DD2 afterall.....

[Diclonius]

Maybe there's already a DD3?

[Negatron]

As long as they don't go the activision route and just change the name in the title screen to "dungeon Defenders *2* (or 3 or 4 or 10 or Dungeon Defenders: Black Ops 14) and resell the same game for full price.

[mcneleon]

Thats excellent to hear, Ill be ready to support yall when you release DLC. Currently I have 4 copies of DD on Steam one for me, my wife, and 2 kids and I buy most DLC for all four accounts! Im insane!!!

[Withinm]

Possibly, never really know what Trendy has planned.

.....

If Trendy ever decide to release a "Dungeon Defenders 2" officially, I still hold it'll be a content update to regular ol' DD; we don't want to lose all our old classes and we don't want a new game which includes them as something we have to pay for over. But a major gameplay overhaul for the core game could be "DD2".
I, too, hope that DD2, 3, 4...etc. will be DLC-like additions to the original DD instead of a whole brand new game.

[JoBarfCreepy]

Thats excellent to hear, Ill be ready to support yall when you release DLC. Currently I have 4 copies of DD on Steam one for me, my wife, and 2 kids and I buy most DLC for all four accounts! Im insane!!!
Good to hear I'm not the only one who is slightly insane. I have bought multiple Terraria copies (for my sister, myself, myself, for a friend and for me)

[NexusxAlpha]

We need open world! :)

[Weir]

DD2 already? It's too early, DD1 won't die for a very long time. :(

[Alshain]

DD2 already? It's to early, DD1 won't die for a very long time. :(

This is what I'm thinking. DunDef has only been out for 9 months (on PC).

[Bubbles]

I hope they use Trinigy's Vision Engine. It allows for a massive amount of mobs on the screen with no lag. Currently On AQ, CitC, misty, or any maps with tons of mobs - I lag horridly. My computer can run deus ex human revolution on full with no lag. Little bit of a problem, hah.

It might be the graphic engine used, or it might not, I am not sure. I would place my bets on it, though.

[zingfharn]

You're talking about frame rate issues, not lag. lag is network related - when the host is sending data too slow. This is your frame rate collapsing because too much is happening on screen.

Unreal is a great engine. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3 for a host of games that use it with no problem.

The problem is not with the engine, it's with the over-the-top effects and nightmare mode. Towers that originally shot very slowly now chuck out projectiles as much as 33 times a second (I'm looking at you, magic missile). And auras that had dense particle effects with a max radius of 10, now stretch 25 or more, and are used all over the place, without lowering the density of the effects.

The game wasn't optimised with this in mind. And changes haven't been made to catch up. The particle effects on auras, fireball towers, infernos, proxies, magic missiles, and really anything shiny are the problem. If you do a pure squire build, you'll find the frame rate is great. If you add a heap of fireballs and auras, it collapses.

If you turn off post-processing, lower the graphics quality, you'll find it's a lot smoother. But is much less like living in a rainbow.

I'm really hopeful they'll find a way to keep it crazy bright and beautiful while being able to properly scale to the endgame.

[Alshain]

They aren't going to change the engine on the game this late. I disagree with the statement that UE3 is a great engine though, but that is for other reasons beyond what you see in game. It's inferior when comparing it to CryEngine or even Source. As for Vision Engine 8, well Trinigy doesn't license it like UE3, CE3, or Source and it would be very expensive.

Like any game, the higher the settings, the better computer you need to run it. I've never had issues with frame rates in this game, but then I run a 448 Core 560Ti on an i5 2500k with 8GB of ram.

[Volkamar]

I just hope Trendy actually comes up with content to reward all the players and not just the ones willing to empty their pockets for each spoon-feeding of DLC they come out with. When the was the last piece of free updated content that we received?

[Lourishinfox]

Unreal is a great engine. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3 for a host of games that use it with no problem.


It has an easy to understand dev kit. The reason it's used on many games is that it can go on many different platforms.

Just because you have a list of games using it does not make it a great engine; Thats an opinion.




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[zingfharn]

I just hope Trendy actually comes up with content to reward all the players and not just the ones willing to empty their pockets for each spoon-feeding of DLC they come out with. When the was the last piece of free updated content that we received?Yeah. Because all other games give you free stuff all the time. It's just trendy who are charging for new content...


It has an easy to understand dev kit. The reason it's used on many games is that it can go on many different platforms. Just because you have a list of games using it does not make it a great engine; Thats an opinion. Uhm. Yeah. It is an opinion. That's sort of the point. And it depends on your definition of great. But, meh, semantics. And not pertinent.

What -is- pertinent is that plenty of other developers have managed to get amazing looking games running at 50+ FPS. Unreal is not fundamentally a crappy engine. Batman Arkham City, for example. The Mass Effect franchise. Mirror's Edge. Gears of Wars. Bulletstorm (heh). These are beautiful looking games that perform blisteringly well on my computer at max settings. DD does not. So while there may be "better" engines out there, it's pretty simple to conclude that it's an optimisation issue specific to this game, and not a fundamental flaw of the engine.

And the multiple platform thing is totally irrelevant. You wouldn't use middleware unless it offered multiple platform support, especially if you're a small new studio. You want to be able to deploy to multiple platforms with the minimum of extra work. Cryengine offers DX9/10, PS3, Xbox out of the box. Source has xbox live libs integrated, and works on xbox and "other next gen platforms" which implies you can hack it for the PS3 with some elbow grease. I don't really understand why you'd bring that up at all.

Anyway, again, back to the point.
You have a host of engines, all of which are broadly the same when it comes down to it. So it was chosen for a) previous experience, and b) cheapness.

http://www.udk.com/profile-trendy
“Having used Unreal technology before, we already knew that the UDK was going to be the most badass game engine around. What's been most surprising to us are Epic's generous licensing terms for indies, which make it a no-brainer for any team to jump on this opportunity,” says Stieglitz.

[Cymmina]

I just hope Trendy actually comes up with content to reward all the players and not just the ones willing to empty their pockets for each spoon-feeding of DLC they come out with. When the was the last piece of free updated content that we received?

You mean, other than all of those free patches we get a least once a week?

Easter (1 costume, 1 pet), St. Patrick's Day (4 costumes), President's Day (1 map, 4 costumes, 2 pets, 2 weapons), Valentine's Day (1 map, 4 costumes, 1 pet), Christmas/Thanksgiving/Halloween (1 map, 4 costumes). On top of that, 2 of the 3 costumes for the DLC heroes can be obtained by joining someone who did buy the map. Karathiki was given as a bonus to Shards pack owners (1 costume, 1 pet), so it's free depending on who you ask. You're totally right, we never get any free content.

[Alshain]

We usually get one per holiday, but May doesn't really have a holiday I can think of other than Cinco de Mayo which is too close to Easter.

Maybe we will see an Independence Day (I know that's just US, but they did Presidents day). But, if they do Independence Day there better be Alien and Will Smith outfits.

[gow3isba]

we're planning on creating new dd1 content after the 4th shards release. How long after the 4th shards release remains to be determined; it depends on how the community's support over time to determine how many resources we can allocate, but yes we do have fun plans that go beyond shards 4 (which, by the way, is going to be epic :) ).

Keep on defending,
jer yes!!!!!

[JoBarfCreepy]

We usually get one per holiday, but May doesn't really have a holiday I can think of other than Cinco de Mayo which is too close to Easter.

Maybe we will see an Independence Day (I know that's just US, but they did Presidents day). But, if they do Independence Day there better be Alien and Will Smith outfits.

Well, we could just have celebration DLC for every day a Trendy Staff member/developer have their birthday. That ought'a be atleast once a month.

[Poor D!ck]

I just hope Trendy actually comes up with content to reward all the players and not just the ones willing to empty their pockets for each spoon-feeding of DLC they come out with. When the was the last piece of free updated content that we received?

Trendy has to be one of the best companies at 'rewarding' and taking care of existing customers that I've encountered; second only to Valve in my experience.

[Tattis]

We usually get one per holiday, but May doesn't really have a holiday I can think of other than Cinco de Mayo which is too close to Easter.

Maybe we will see an Independence Day (I know that's just US, but they did Presidents day). But, if they do Independence Day there better be Alien and Will Smith outfits.

I think it'd be cool to have some DD specific holidays for the times of the year where you have gaps between major holidays (Easter to Independence Day, Independence Day to Halloween). For example, at one point, the Old Ones were all locked away in the Eternia Crystals (http://dungeondefenders.com/game/overview). How about an anniversary to celebrate that occasion? Presumably that's something that would be celebrated in the Dungeon Defenders universe.

Not only would that fill in some of the lengthier gaps between holidays, but it'd allow the dev team to come up with more costumes that aren't so closely tied to official holidays (and usually don't make much sense to wear after they're over).