Disconnects... Crashes... Trendynet... Steam...

[Jesus-at-arms]

So finally a word on one thing that really takes away the fun from this game: DISCONNECTS and CRASHES


And honestly... I am quite patient with these things and wouldn't complain if it was a disconnect or crash "sometimes". But it's not. It happens all the time.

And that is definitely a no-go for a game in survival mode... losing connection in survival mode at wave 20+ all the time again and again for several reasons. I already fixed a couple of them as much as I was able to. But finally the worst of them remaining are:

- Steam connection loss.
- Trendynet connection loss.


I don't want to lose my games just because of a stupid minor steam server patch or reconnect... and the same goes for trendynet connection losses. Or even other technical issues.


Find a way to fix that finally!

[GANJiN]

Yea trendy needs their own servers. I get disconnected 3-5 times a day because steam went offline for 1 minute doing a silly update to their servers.

[al_bundy]

yea having steam update their servers is a pain in the neck.
wouldn't be such a big deal but they're doing it enough to make me create a profile on this forum.
maybe post some news about planned updates on the steam page or in-game?
again, i realize its a free service, but we do pay for the games, not everyone is cheap enough to stick to TF2.
not that TF2 isn't a great game.

anyhow, the general consensus seems to be that the servers are being updated; i just wish steam would let us know what was going on.
last night i reinstalled steam trying to get it to work, and even tried resetting my router.

here's to hoping the steam servers / no connection issues clear up shortly. its sunday and everyone's off work!

[SnakeChips]

How big Steam is, Trendy won't get there own servers.

[Khift]

How big Steam is, Trendy won't get there own servers.Steam's size has nothing to do with this conversation.

Trendy doesn't need it's own servers. Trendy needs to add a grace period between losing connection to Steam and being disconnected from the game; during this grace period the client would accumulate data to sync with Steam once the connection was re-established. I'd say it should let you finish the map you're on, but not let you start any others. At next connection to Steam, the data gets uploaded and you're back where you should be.

[Urza]

That would just cause like 2 minute lag where everyone is dead. IF connection is lost, the grace period would also have to automatically pause the game. Would also have to only work if host is the one disconnected or then u get griefers who sabotage games.

[SnakeChips]

Steam's size has nothing to do with this conversation.

Trendy doesn't need it's own servers. Trendy needs to add a grace period between losing connection to Steam and being disconnected from the game; during this grace period the client would accumulate data to sync with Steam once the connection was re-established. I'd say it should let you finish the map you're on, but not let you start any others. At next connection to Steam, the data gets uploaded and you're back where you should be.

Considering that's impossible. You -> Steam -> Trendy. If steam is down, the temp save can't happen cause it saves on steam. Thus involving them needing their own servers to save that information for you.

[bigjeey]

No way ! They have more important stuff to do first:

- squire sword swing speed reduced by 80%
- squire movement speed reduced by 72%
- piercing shot piercing limited to two targets, projectile slowed by 40%
- ogre damage increase by 700% on nightmare
- increased fireball range for enemy mages by 2000%, increased projectile speed by 800%
- increased wyvern movement speed and damage by 200%
- reduced aura lifespan by 80%
- reduced trap charges by 70%
- spiders now teleport to the player
- ninjas are now invincible for 10 seconds after jumping
- new enemy: flying ogre
- new boss encounter: CTD. Randomly crashes the host to desktop instead of spawning the boss.

[Khift]

Considering that's impossible. You -> Steam -> Trendy. If steam is down, the temp save can't happen cause it saves on steam. Thus involving them needing their own servers to save that information for you.You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Please stop coming to these threads.

[Khift]

That would just cause like 2 minute lag where everyone is dead. IF connection is lost, the grace period would also have to automatically pause the game. Would also have to only work if host is the one disconnected or then u get griefers who sabotage games.Every single thing about the game is run client side. The only thing the central server does is provides a list of available games to join, high score lists, and saves your character's progress.

All I'm suggesting is that when disconnected from steam the game saves your character's progress on your computer and then uploads it once reconnected. This would allow you to finish the map you're currently on without interruption.

[SnakeChips]

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Please stop coming to these threads.

Click here for response to your knowing nothing of computers. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64fbqYQY)

[mike2003]

bigjeey, nice post!
I would add: * to increase the survival time to 24 hours

[Drago Dracini]

No way ! They have more important stuff to do first:

- squire sword swing speed reduced by 80%
- squire movement speed reduced by 72%
- piercing shot piercing limited to two targets, projectile slowed by 40%
- ogre damage increase by 700% on nightmare
- increased fireball range for enemy mages by 2000%, increased projectile speed by 800%
- increased wyvern movement speed and damage by 200%
- reduced aura lifespan by 80%
- reduced trap charges by 70%
- spiders now teleport to the player
- ninjas are now invincible for 10 seconds after jumping
- new enemy: flying ogre
- new boss encounter: CTD. Randomly crashes the host to desktop instead of spawning the boss.

Funny, but please get your trolling @$$ out of here? Snake could you please show your work? IF you actually do know enough to explain all this please explain to all of us the EXACT reasons for your point being the right one. And Khift, civility please.

Now on topic. Let me explain what would happen upon introducing temp saves, as well as how temp saves would work.

Steam's servers would go down, as they do with every disconnect (which is somehow Trendy's fault if you believe the current rage on the forum). At this time your game would detect the disconnection, force a save of all tower placement, and that's all, no mana or items on the ground, any mana you have picked up during the wave is gone, because you'll start with 0 mana when the save resumes. This save is placed locally on your computer, because DD would have no connection. Connection returns, you start DD, the save is moved from your hard drive onto the server, a resume button is added to the level select when selecting the specific level, difficulty, and mode, allowing you to start from that save. You enter the game with zero mana, no items or mana on the ground, towers in the right place, and the same wave. That's the basic way this would have to work, unless you wanted Trendy to find a way to keep DD connected to the servers long enough to not have to load the save onto your hard drive, but that's still not going to happen.

Now, that sounds pretty fair, but there's a HUGE problem with that. Placing the save file on someone's hard drive means that it will be the easiest thing to hack EVER. But that isn't the major problem with it because the player base isn't majority hackers anyway (closer to 2-5% if you actually do your research). The major problem is that you would have to upload this save to their servers, which would be done upon launching the game, yes. But the how does DD recognize when your save is complete and not let you continue it AGAIN? The saves would not be meant to allow you to play with the perfect set up by perfectly geared players any time you want. They would be meant to let you start the game at the same spot after a server failure. Would the save disappear after being used once? Never to return, even after a second disconnect?

You see what I mean? There are tons of variables here. Let's see the real explanation of how this system would work from the mind who created it, Khift.

Also, this topic is sort of a bait topic and probably should have been locked a few posts ago. *laughs*

[bigjeey]

Funny, but please get your trolling @$$ out of here? Snake could you please show your work? IF you actually do know enough to explain all this please explain to all of us the EXACT reasons for your point being the right one. And Khift, civility please.


The irony in this paragraph is staggering. To put it in your own words:


*laughs*

As you pointed out a save system like you described is very sensitive to abuse. All it takes is to download someone else's file with tower placement and play survival wave 25 over and over again.

It's really a two way problem. You should have some measures in the game to account for server downtime, but the servers your game relies on shouldn't be down anyways. One possible way you could do this is to store a read-only copy of the ranked saves to import into open when sh*t hits the fan.

[Drago Dracini]

The irony in this paragraph is staggering. To put it in your own words:



As you pointed out a save system like you described is very sensitive to abuse. All it takes is to download someone else's file with tower placement and play survival wave 25 over and over again.

It's really a two way problem. You should have some measures in the game to account for server downtime, but the servers your game relies on shouldn't be down anyways. One possible way you could do this is to store a read-only copy of the ranked saves to import into open when sh*t hits the fan.

*laughs* Why is it ironic? Because I showed work? Because your first post was trolling (not saying it wasn't funny ;p)? Because I was being civil? I can't tell if it was a dig at me or at everyone else. ;p

But yes, that was the point, explaining that the save system is too easy to abuse, bringing the points of how the system would work and the faults in it. I don't like the idea of a save system, but I wanted to see if someone knew how to actually make it work. Specifically Khift, as the idea was from him.

[SnakeChips]

I understand what they mean by client side, and yes it is possible for single player. But for multiplayer online, it's impossible for it to have a grace period and save information to come back later to if steam is down because holding information for more then one person without the server is just not going to work. It's just the way things work. So I don't know how exactly you mean to show my work when that's just basically it there lol.

EDIT: For ranked servers that is. Open MIGHT be possible because it saves to your computer. But Trendy has no option to save lost games from d/c's or anything like that yet. So until they get a basic one yet. A steam crash save one isn't possible.

[Alhanalem]

It turns out this was a more unusual and serious problem than normal. There was a loss of power at a data center and the backup power also failed.


Update: Our data center's uninterruptible power supplies experienced a power failure. The power is back on now and we're working to get service restored as quickly as possible. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

This is an EXTREMELY rare issue for any company and data center and likely caused by an "Act of God."

[bigjeey]

Looks like the uninterruptible power supply got interrupted :demon:

Maybe a :kobold: snuck into the datacenter ? I heard they can slip through cracks in the wall n stuff.

[SnakeChips]

It turns out this was a more unusual and serious problem than normal. There was a loss of power at a data center and the backup power also failed.



This is an EXTREMELY rare issue for any company and data center and likely caused by an "Act of God."

Or someone tripped over the power cord to everything =P

[Swixel]

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Please stop coming to these threads.

Uh ...


Every single thing about the game is run client side. The only thing the central server does is provides a list of available games to join, high score lists, and saves your character's progress.

Uh ...

Anyone with Wireshark installed could tell you that Steam provides the server list through the lobby/server/matchmaking nonsense, and that TrendyNet is where the data is stored. They could also tell you how they store the data, and how their server works, without ever violating the "do not use tools on our game" (because my network is not their game, and Australian law has some really nice parts).

So please, before you take a poke at someone, get your ducks in a row.

[Jesus-at-arms]

And again... same damn thing just another day. Steam - NO CONNECTION. For let's say about 1 minute... if at all.


Just to point one thing out. This thread wasn't supposed to be an accuse to anybody... so I don't blaim Trendynet or whoever for the problem.


BUT the problem is just there. So either somebody finds a smart way to fix or get around it... or it stays just as frustrating as it is.

And by the way... the problem is actually not even that I lose a game or two for the reason of steam updating a server. The problem to ME rather is that it happens almost EVERY DAY. And several times. Because of the following reasons together:

Steam Updates once to several times a day.
PLUS
DD Crash caused by Data Execution Prevention. Which happens in irregular intervals.
PLUS
TrendyNet Connection loss. Which I really have to admit is the smallest problem of these.


So in the end... the longer a game goes the higher the chance gets that it's interrupted by any of these reasons. And there wasn't a single survival game during the last 7 days that I was able to finish properly.

[Jesus-at-arms]

Again once more...


Three times nightmare survival today. Three times .exe crashed at wave 14 or whatever. Great.