Misty NM survival theory crafting

[Detpurroc]

Moved text and earlier versions at the bottom of the post.

Here are the most recent versions I feel work really good.
Solo + AFK layout : http://html5.cubicleninja.com/dd/index.htm?layout=18527
Main layout : http://html5.cubicleninja.com/dd/index.htm?layout=18530

I will update what I feel are the best builds on the top. Feel free to add your own variations, and I will update the first post with them.

Hero stats used to test these builds :
Walls : 1600 hp
Auras : 800 hp/ 1300 dmg/ 600 speed/ 600 range
Traps : 800 hp/ 1200 dmg/ 600 speed/ 700 range
Towers: 900 hp/ 1750 dmg/ 800 speed/ 700 range

(my stats were 25% lower when I started testing, not much change noticed because of the stat increase)

Idea behind the layout:

The first problem most players face while playing mistymire forest survival is the waves 10-11-12 ogre rush. The second problem starts showing up a little later when kobolds and other mobs start reaching the walls taking a big chunk of their hp down. This was mostly happening with poison immune kobolds that would go unaffected by the ensnare aura.

Most players tried addressing the first issue by adding enrage auras at the spawn points. This did solve the first issue, but not the second 1. I decided to add darkness traps at each spawn points to make every mob affected by the ensnares, making it less likely kobolds would reach the walls. I figured that mobs all being stripped from their immunities, a gas trap could possibly do the same job an enrage did, while using less DU. I was right. More then that though, this setup slowed the map more than an enrage aura, and it made the lanes spawn mobs at different times so that I would not have to worry about 4 lanes at a time.

I placed a proximity at the top because spiders group there and harpoons have a hard time dealing with them, also, the proxy makes it impossible for a kobold to get to the wall now. I really like this. The only other place where kobolds are an issue is south because the ensnare is moved to the left to hit air. More range would solve this problem on its own, but I dont have that, so I used another proxy south the take care of the mobs there also.

Lastly, at later waves, the main problem is spiders. You NEED to kill them as soon as they spawn. Currently, the only tower able to do this is the bouncers. I put 1 on each spider spawn making sure that no spiders would bounce towards the anti air harpoons if they were, for some obscure reason, not boosted by apprentice guardians.

This is the reasoning behind the build. It is a pretty solid build overall, and can be tweaked a little. If you feel the spawns are still to fast, it's easy to get rid of the south proxy (which is less useful than the north one) and put another gas trap in a different lane. I would advise against the NE lane because the times with 1 of the lanes gassed at a time is perfect the way it is, so North or south are your best bet!

Anyways, a lot of testing actually went into this, even tho it looks like it is very simple.

[prostheus]

Could you please include the tower character stats you use also? Thank you :)

[Detpurroc]

Small update. Bdiz is testing the map solo right now. He said wave 12 was really easy compared to the build he previously had. His stats are quite good tho.


2200 hp walls
1313/2400/1148/1179 squire tower
830/1922/796/1232 traptress
959/1971/980/863 monk auras

Lets see how far he can get

On wave 17 now, most bugs are taken out of the layout. Only resist you really need now is generic + poison for ogres. The setup might fail on wave 20 because south is stuck with the old original layout, which is hard to change >__>.

[bdiz]

http://html5.cubicleninja.com/dd/index.htm?layout=18064

final layout as of now (doing more testing tomorrow to get past 20)

The placement of your gas traps depends on how big your traps are (in the North East lane be careful of mobs getting trapped near the shroommite, a necromancer spawned skeletons which bugged into the mountain and bugged my harpoons out, causing ogres to kill my wall off)

The placement of Darkness Traps is forward because they lose at most 15 charges (while solo) and mine have 35 charges. They don't need to be repaired, and the early you can strip mobs of their immunity the better imo (especially since I personally have 90% generic reduction on NM)

Also, the DU is raised by 12 because Darkness are only 3 and they're listed at 6 on cubicle ninja. This is actually 140 DU in game.

Requirements for this build: 2 Sets of mid-high end tower gear (my trap-tress is mid/high [150-170^'s] while the squire is 190-220^'s with good base stats and I'd consider it a high end set of gear) Monk gear needs to have 800/800/???/800 stats at minimum.

If you don't have 1800 trap damage you should use bouncer blockades instead of prox + app wall.

As far as Tower HP set goes, I'd say the minimum is 2000ish which is fairly easily achieved, the more the better though obviously

[knox]

I'll have to try this later. My builder stats are nearly identical, just have 2712 tower hp rather than 2200.

[Master Buttermilk]

You can manually change the DU for each item in cubicle ninja, btw.

[Absinthe]

So once the mobs step on the Darkness trap their immunities will continue to be stripped even if they leave the Darkness Trap?

[Detpurroc]

yes, like mage barricades. Also, the cubicle in the first post is the same has bdiz posted, but with correct DU vallues ;)

[Citruszinus]

Do you guys have 4? If not I would like to join, I have a little bit of everything but you can kick me if I don't fit the bill.

SteamID: Sdsoljah

[Detpurroc]

More updates to come soon. Made some interesting tests this morning xD. Just have to implement them in a good way. We are probably going to add the enrage back to slow the ogres down a little. It probably wouldnt be a problem with 4 players, but doing it solo is a little more problematic.

[knox]

If you need a man hit me up. I have a 27xx Wall HP app, 2500 tower attack, and 2200+ hp 2500+ attack heroes.

[Detpurroc]

Just updated the setup. I have never soloed wave 12 this easy before. Its not the exact setup I used because my trapper is really bad (ok for darkness traps etc). I put bouncers instead of proxies+magewall (same DU cost). Everything was VERY smooth. East only starts getting active once top lane stops, its perfect for duo ;) ( I played it duo with my afk builder in a corner). Never came close to dying, and could almost afk wave 16 while boosting the base proxies (bouncers in my case). Good luck!

[Highborne]

Hmm...proxies might be a better option but require a lot more in terms of maintenance wouldn't they?

[Detpurroc]

proxies with good stats need maintenance at most every 2-3 minutes I'd say, thats if its always in use. In my test run, I used an inferno at the top (outside of base) instead of the proxy because my trappers life stat isnt good enough for proxies yet I think. The goal is just to get rid of the spiders that pile up there, also kills the kobolds as a bonus. But yeah... proxie would be way better

Adding an idea I just had that I havent tested yet (so I don't forget).

http://html5.cubicleninja.com/dd/index.htm?layout=18289

[Detpurroc]

BAD NEWS. Gas traps do NOT work past wave 17. So this build... is good to pass wave 12 solo I guess (if you have problems with the 24 ogres). But the traps will need to be removed and enrage auras should be added for those waves.

[vyzeen]

Tried this build with slight modifications with a team of 3, made it to wave 28. By then the spider had too much hp for the proxy traps and ran loose. A webbed balista at the wrong time let a wyvern through and ended it for us.

[Detpurroc]

Ahh... too bad. So, are you saying that the gas traps actually worked in 7.16b ? might have been a huge glitch for us if thats the case.

[mmm]

im more curious about explosion tbh, how could explosion 1-2 shot spiders at wave 27 ?

[Detpurroc]

app guardian of course, but yeah, my trapper isnt good enough so I switch every proxy for bouncers (that have higher dmg), but you have to be careful with their placement to not bounce ANY spiders near AA.

I'm also curious to what build you used (what varation). I'm guessing its the last 1 I posted because it works the best IMO, but just wanted to make sure ;)

[Absinthe]

Tried this build with slight modifications with a team of 3, made it to wave 28. By then the spider had too much hp for the proxy traps and ran loose. A webbed balista at the wrong time let a wyvern through and ended it for us.

If I recall at wave 28 a spider has over 300k hp

Which means you should need close to 2k in trap damage before you can one hit kill the spiders with an app buff.

I currently have 1600+ in Trap damage and deals around 112k damage unbuffed and with buff 308k - still not enough to one shot spiders but nearly. Just gotta upgrade my armor more and should be able to one shot spiders

[Detpurroc]

spider HP might depend on the amount of players also ;)

[Absinthe]

spider HP might depend on the amount of players also ;)

True that, I forgot about it lol :)

*Edit* sorry the attack for proximity mine was already app guardian boosted. I just checked it this morning. Which means it needs to go off at least 3 times before it will kill a spider on wave 28+ onwards even with teh app boost :(

[Detpurroc]

Guess I'll have to try later today. I'll switch my app set over to my trapper (currently not using app...at all). Should be able to have a little over 1750+ trap dmg with that after investing a little in my weapon. Should be enough to get pretty far. I'll keep you all updated on the gas trap thing at wave 18 (If I dont drop before reaching it >______>).

[mmm]

Which means you should need close to 2k in trap damage before you can one hit kill the spiders with an app buff.

thats not the problem
the problem is this build was meant to NOT 4man mysti so its absolutely impossible to give app guard to traps

also even if 4man, putting walls and more stuff around will make it less likely to have every thingbuffed i think

[Detpurroc]

Yes mmm, thats a point I argued with my buddy when making the build. I'm think about only using bouncers just because of that. I can afk my build in the back stairs, boosting 2 of them, and 3 towers for west path. I would only need to take care of the spiders that spawn inside the base on the other side, which I am there 95% of the time boosting them anyways. I think what would be more optimal. Of course, I would keep the trap outside tho.

[vyzeen]

Yeah, that was the problem we had late waves. The proxies, even when app guard buffed, didn't do enough to control the spiders. While the gas traps did a fantastic job holding the 4 sides, spiders inside the base caused us to lose to wvyerns.

[bdiz]

your gas traps held up past wave 18?

On wave 18 I had gas traps on 2 lanes + enrage on one (for testing purposes) - mobs just ignored the gas traps and I had to go into a repair frenzy due to the massive amounts of kobolds sneaking through

I'd love to see a cubicle ninja of your adjustments to the build ;D

[Kandar]

in higher waves explosive traps on blockades do not work at all to kill spiders. Spiders reach 360,000 HP and explosives have to go off many times to kill a spider. During this time they may cast webs or just run off in a random direction.

with their higher HP also comes higher damage. During peak spawn times the spiders may drop 3 4 or even 5 at a time on a blockade. They'll chew through it long before you have a chance to repair it. and if you do repair it, you're paying way too much attention to the spiders rather then the important things like a 35 million HP ogre on the blockades.

Iv tried these a while back with little success. then i moved to DSTs which got nerfed and now im using bumpers which are the only thing left that can 1shot spiders.

[vyzeen]

I think our success with gas trap came from accidental mis-positioning. I put them too far out and mobs were stuck on the edges of it choking but out of balista line of sight. So they just queue up there more and more while going no where. This means by 100-200 mobs into the wave, north, west, and east are all clogged up with DEWs and ogres stuck behind the piles of stuck mobs.

Since the gas trapped mobs weren't getting killed, nothing clears up and eventually they despawn, or at a time of our choosing, we go clear them out. It served the same function as an enrage, but seems to be even more effective at blocking not only ogres, but DEWs as well.

Kandar is correct about the spiders, and that's exactly what brought us down. I'm going to take out the 2 balistas shooting at interior base spawns and replace the barricades on proxys with bouncers. Since we weren't getting much pressure from the 4 sides, bouncer sitting on top of a proxy at each of the 4 interior spider spawn should be more than enough to control them.

bdiz, I didn't actually make any intentional adjustments, just some slightly mis-positioned gas traps where the mobs were choking outside of balista/bowling range.

[Kandar]

why would you put an explosive under a bumper? that's just wasting 3 points.

http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?45146-GUIDE-Misty-Survival-Mix-Mode-SQUIRE-layout reinventing the wheel is bad.

Uses only bumpers for spiders and it works perfectly with no repair needed. I use it every time i do misty. Adding an explosive under the bumper wont do anything unless you plan to avoid buffing them but then you'll be back to square 1 again with mass repairs needed.

For misty survival the key to success has always been 1shotting spiders as they spawn. well, if you wanted a nice smooth run. DSTs used to do it but they got nerfed, now bumpers are all thats left. Trying to use explosive is just going to turn into a mess.

[vyzeen]

I saw your build, but it requires 4 people with app guardians in precise locations to buff all the bumpers right?

We only have 3 people, and not even always that. So I'm trying to see if adding proxy under the bumper could compensate for missing 1-2 guard buffs and allow for a greater margin of error.

[Kandar]

actually it requires 2 for buffing. and 1 person can do all the important ones, I use the same layout for solo and can go 20 plus without much trouble.

[vyzeen]

I see. We'll give it a try with just the bumpers and see how it goes.

[Detpurroc]

yeah, My tries were with bumpers and it worked good. 2 players can buff the bumpers very easy. I'm not sure what you mean about the listas targeting inside the base, I didnt have any >__>.

[Detpurroc]

Fun little variation for all us solo + 1 controller players! A build that lets you not have to worry about spiders spawning inside the base :D

http://html5.cubicleninja.com/dd/index.htm?layout=18462

[Absinthe]

Yes Kandar is right - proxy traps is just a waste - sorry for my previous post. Bumpers are the way forward. Just gotta pony up 2500 in attack :)

[Detpurroc]

Updated first post with a wall of text that can crit for a lot of dmg! Seriously tho, I put the text there to make people think about there builds more, so they might build them out of strategy and not just pure raw power. >__>

[Detpurroc]

Tested both builds, finished wave 21 solo (with afk) on both. Traps were not an issue, so false alarm there. Both builds are tested and working, altho 1 is way faster than the other (a little less safe tho)

[Detpurroc]

Bump!

[drix]

i can't for the life of me get past wave 10. My app walls is only 1300 and my squire attack is only 1600. Are you 3 starring everything by wave 10 ? Once there are 4 ogres in 1 lane my walls cannot hold on.

[Detpurroc]

thats kinda weird, ogres dont even attack my walls, at least not until wave 20+ where if I dont kill them fast enough, they might start attacking. Also yeah, all towers are 3 starred by wave 9, all walls auras and traps are 3 starred by wave 10, I'm pretty fast with upping ;). But it doesnt really matter :S. I can AFK wave 10 for sure >_>

[drix]

Really ? It must have to do something with the wall locations. Since they always attack my walls. Can you please post a screenshot of wall locations at north east and south ? In game i meant. I can one star everything by wave wave 10 and three star all walls. But ogres always attack my walls =/

[Detpurroc]

I'll take a screenshot tomorrow, not enough time for me right now :S. Just make sure there is always a tower dedicated to the ogres. Also, those towers must be out of range of the ogres, but still close enough to the walls so they target them. I think the placements on the cubicle are accurate, not sure what is wrong with ur build :(

[drix]

okay i will try it again. Thanks :)

[Bric]

First off, thanks for the build idea. Using this I was able to get to wave 17 before enough south leaked through to get my crystal. I haven't been able to get back to wave 17 in my subsequent tries but wanted to at least share what I learned from my runs.

1) South Anti-Air alignment is important. I did not have two of the harpoons lined up with the incoming air path and over a couple of waves 1 or 2 would leak through.

2) The positioning of the gas traps next to the darkness traps matters. I didn't have the west covered right and none of the mobs got held up there. This is easy to detect though if you just watch the mini map during the first wave or two to ensure mobs are piling up.

3) Occasionally ogres from the east lane will glitch over the cart and start beating on the crystal. Not much you can do other than try to agro the ogre as fast as possible.

4) North is where i had the most problems. Again harpoon positioning is important, if it faces to far west it will glitch and target unhittable mobs. I also had problems with mages standing back behind the mushroom guy and swarming the walls with skeletons or healing mobs.


Curious if anybody has tried moving the gas trap to a different lane or maybe replacing one of the harpoons with a fireball tower?

[Medigo]

Thanks for this build guys! Really appreciate it! Me and a friend were able to duo to 30 with this setup, worked great

[simonus]

This is my nice build:

http://html5.cubicleninja.com/dd/index.htm?layout=19522
I can solo with my dps apprentice (stats 1024/1142/650/139) up to wave 20.

My adept builder stats: 1130/1730/749/930
My monk: 982/1567/1363/241
My countress builder: 1009/1474/759/450

[meowmix]

Btw, do you guys tend to start at wave 8 and go from there? Or is it advised to start lower to upgrade everything earlier? Thanks.

[Detpurroc]

I start lower and upgrade everything, but I think playing in duo, it would be possible to start at wave 8.

[meowmix]

I start lower and upgrade everything, but I think playing in duo, it would be possible to start at wave 8.
Thank you :)

[Tuxicus42]

http://html5.cubicleninja.com/dd/index.htm?layout=21333

Detpurroc - thanks, every much for coming up with the spider-free camp method. It works great! I came up with a slightly different design using squire spike blockades instead of app blockades - simply because they don't have enough health to survive the higher levels. I was also having some issues with spiders webbing the harpoons in later levels, so I made some changes there.

I was able to take this to wave 22 before the West gave out, but it's kind of my fault. It was going pretty smoothly up until that point.

Squire 1900/2050/x/x

The north Bowling Ball turret and harpoon are on top of the wall with a clean LOS to mobs incoming from the northeast. The harpoon serves double-duty helping out with the east choke point. The "middle" harpoon covers north and east. And in the south, the harpoon is situated to primarily attack the south, but also hits the east. And finally, the east harpoon is situated to help out in the north too.

Placing the north BB turret can be tricky. It should be angled so they plop right down over the spike blockade.

- Tux